Hannah Stoughton - Revision history

Liz: /* Source notes */ correction to date of birth of Hannah as calculated from gravestone, to 1839, not 1849

2011-03-27T02:59:27Z

‎Source notes: correction to date of birth of Hannah as calculated from gravestone, to 1839, not 1849

Liz: add source note re. age conflict between Hannah's census age and gravestone of Hannah M (Myers)

2011-03-25T13:36:44Z

add source note re. age conflict between Hannah's census age and gravestone of Hannah M (Myers)

Liz: formatting

2011-03-23T12:20:34Z

formatting

Liz: further rearrangement & simplification of data in the research section.

2011-03-23T12:14:52Z

further rearrangement & simplification of data in the research section.

Liz: separate sources, some into a conjectural sources section; rearrange data among these sections and research section

2011-03-22T15:32:03Z

separate sources, some into a conjectural sources section; rearrange data among these sections and research section

Show changes

Liz: add notes re. Margaret Stoughton in 1840 census, living near Barnard Stoughton family

2011-03-22T13:06:57Z

add notes re. Margaret Stoughton in 1840 census, living near Barnard Stoughton family

Liz: add to gravestone photo thumbnail - middle initial "M" for Hannah

2011-03-15T03:45:43Z

add to gravestone photo thumbnail - middle initial "M" for Hannah

Liz: /* Photos */ photo upload, gravestone of Hannah wife of John J Myers

2011-03-15T03:42:53Z

‎Photos: photo upload, gravestone of Hannah wife of John J Myers

Liz: Add communication from P.Myers Grewell re gravestone, cemetery, & John Valentine Myers family to Research section

2011-03-15T02:57:18Z

Add communication from P.Myers Grewell re gravestone, cemetery, & John Valentine Myers family to Research section

Liz: extract & image 1870 census Piney Twp. Clarion Co. Pa, Jno. J. & Hannah Myers

2011-03-15T01:29:45Z

extract & image 1870 census Piney Twp. Clarion Co. Pa, Jno. J. & Hannah Myers

@@ Line 119: / Line 119: @@
 *The memorial page for Hannah M. on FindAGrave, copyrighted by Pamela Myers-Grewell is titled "Hannah M. Stoughton Myers". Copyright by Pamela Myers-Grewell. In personal communication from Pamela, the linking of Hannah Stoughton to John J. Myers is at present conjecture.
 *Per Pamela Myers-Grewell:''The Myers are actually buried in Licking Cemetery, but may appear as Churchville Cemetery at the FindAGrave website, where the two small cemeteries have been combined as one listing.''
-* From the gravestone for Hannah M (Myers), her calculated birth date would be Jan. 1839.  This raises concerns regarding her being Hannah Stoughton, reasoned as follows.  Her brother Elliot Stoughton is not accounted for in the 1840 census, but is listed as being "10" in Sept. 1850. Thus Elliot was born at the earliest in the summer of 1840 (after the 1840 census, but early enough to be 10 in Sept. 1850). He is always listed before Hannah who was "8" in Sept.1850. In Aug. 1860, they are both listed as being 18 years old. This makes it highly doubtful that Hannah could be born by Jan. 1841, unless they were twins. They were close enough in age however to be both listed as 18 years old in 1860. Elliot gave 1841 as a birth date in 1880. The Stoughton - Myers couple is still possible, but Hannah Stoughton almost had to be born in late 1841 or in 1842, not 1849 as the gravestone indicates.
+* From the gravestone for Hannah M (Myers), her calculated birth date would be Jan. 1839.  This raises concerns regarding her being Hannah Stoughton, reasoned as follows.  Her brother Elliot Stoughton is not accounted for in the 1840 census, but is listed as being "10" in Sept. 1850. Thus Elliot was born at the earliest in the summer of 1840 (after the 1840 census, but early enough to be 10 in Sept. 1850). He is always listed before Hannah who was "8" in Sept.1850. In Aug. 1860, they are both listed as being 18 years old. This makes it highly doubtful that Hannah could be born by Jan. 1841, unless they were twins. They were close enough in age however to be both listed as 18 years old in 1860. Elliot gave 1841 as a birth date in 1880. The Stoughton - Myers couple is still possible, but Hannah Stoughton almost had to be born in late 1841 or in 1842, not 1839 as calculated from the gravestone.
-−
 =Research Notes=

@@ Line 119: / Line 119: @@
 *The memorial page for Hannah M. on FindAGrave, copyrighted by Pamela Myers-Grewell is titled "Hannah M. Stoughton Myers". Copyright by Pamela Myers-Grewell. In personal communication from Pamela, the linking of Hannah Stoughton to John J. Myers is at present conjecture.
 *Per Pamela Myers-Grewell:''The Myers are actually buried in Licking Cemetery, but may appear as Churchville Cemetery at the FindAGrave website, where the two small cemeteries have been combined as one listing.''
 =Research Notes=

@@ Line 136: / Line 136: @@
 <br>OTHER MYERS FAMILIES IN THE AREA:
 <br>FAMILY I
-*In 1850 census, Piney Twp., Clarion Co., PA, lines 29-41, are 3 Myers households, living next to each other.  It appears that John & Elizabeth Myers are parents of 3 children (John, Valentine & James) living with them, and probably parents of Jacob and Joseph, both of whom are married but appear to live on either side of John & Elizabeth.
+*In 1850 census, Piney Twp., Clarion Co., PA, lines 29-41, are 3 Myers households, living next to each other.  It appears that John & Elizabeth Myers are parents of 3 children (John, Valentine & James) living with them, and are probably the parents of Jacob and Joseph, both of whom are married but appear to live on either side of John & Elizabeth.
 <br> Myers         Jacob          30    M    W    Farmer         800       Pa.
 <br> Myers         Sarah          26    F    W    .              .         Pa.
@@ Line 151: / Line 151: @@
 <br> Myers         Margaret       21    F    W    .              .         Pa.
-* In 1860 census (Piney Twp, Clarion Co, PA, page 15):
+* In 1860 census (Piney Twp, Clarion Co, PA, page 15),lines 29-32: <br>John Myers, 40, farmer<br>
 lines 29-32: <br>John Myers, 40, farmer<br>
 next household:<br>James Myers 25, farmer  <br>Elizabeth Myers 75  W(widow)<br>Elizabeth Johnson, 26 servant<br>This appears to be John living next to his brother James.  Their mother is living with James.
@@ Line 158: / Line 157: @@
 <BR>FAMILY II
 , Toby Twp., Clarion Co. PA:
 John Myers  36,
@@ Line 173: / Line 171: @@
 census Toby Township, Clarion Co. Pa, pg.9. Date of census 21 July 1870.Lines 5-7:  <BR>Myers, John, age 53, male white, (Ritman Farms?), $1500 real estate, $400 personal estate.  <BR>Lavinia, age 47.  <br>Mary Ann, age 12, in school.  <BR>All born in PA.
-<br>from P. M. Grewell:
+<br>From Pamela Myers-Grewell:
-John Myers & wife Lavina - that is John Valentine Myers. He was a son of Valentine Myers & Sarah Krotzer Eaker, grandson of Samuel Myers & Catherine Hulings.   <br>They are possibly related to Pamela Myers-Grewell's family; unproven. She doesn't believe this John Myers married Hannah Stoughton (as a 2nd wife).  Per her family interviews, John J. Myers, husband of Hannah M., was over age 40 before he married.
+John Myers & wife Lavina - that is John ''Valentine'' Myers. He was a son of Valentine Myers & Sarah Krotzer Eaker, grandson of Samuel Myers & Catherine Hulings.   <br>They are possibly related to P. M. Grewell's family; unproven. She doesn't believe this John Myers married Hannah Stoughton (as a 2nd wife).  Per her family interviews, John J. Myers, husband of Hannah M., was over age 40 before he married.

@@ Line 111: / Line 111: @@
 |-
 !'''10'''
-|'''Descendants of John & Elizabeth Myers''', posted by Pamela Myers-Grewell , see:
+|'''Descendants of John & Elizabeth Myers''', copyright 2007 by Pamela Myers-Grewell , see:
 http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pacpiney/index_files/myers.htm
 <br> John J. Myers has spouse Hannah M. (no surname).  Her dates are 1841-1888.  This matches the Hannah of the John J. Myers census data.
@@ Line 131: / Line 131: @@
 * [[John Edward Hagan]]  (son of Susan Myer and 1st husband John Hagan) was living with the family of Valentine Myers (b. ~1825) in 1860.
 *In 1850 census, Piney Twp., Clarion Co., PA, lines 29-41, are 3 Myers households, living next to each other.  It appears that John & Elizabeth Myers are parents of 3 children (John, Valentine & James) living with them, and probably parents of Jacob and Joseph, both of whom are married but appear to live on either side of John & Elizabeth.
 <br> Myers         Jacob          30    M    W    Farmer         800       Pa.
@@ Line 151: / Line 155: @@
 next household:<br>James Myers 25, farmer  <br>Elizabeth Myers 75  W(widow)<br>Elizabeth Johnson, 26 servant<br>This appears to be John living next to his brother James.  Their mother is living with James.
+<br>Note from these 2 census: John Myers (age 34 in 1850,b. ~1816) has a brother Valentine (age 32 in 1850, b. ~1818)
-*John Myers (age 34 in 1850,b. ~1816) has a brother Valentine (age 32 in 1850, b. ~1818); more below on Valentine.
+<BR>FAMILY II
-*This Valentine Myers may be Susan Myer's family, i.e. John Edward Hagan's mother's family.  This Valentine Myer's father was most likely John Myers seen above in the 1850 census, even though Valentine's age/birth year wobbles by 7 years).
-−
-* We surmise, there was a John Myers who was most likely Valentine's brother (b. 1816) and wasn't married at age 34. His sister Susan Myers was already married to [[Barnard V. Stoughton]] at this point.  It is likely that through Susan Myers Stoughton, her brother John Myers came to know her step-daughter Hannah Stoughton.
-−
-* We need:  1)Obituaries from Clarion Newspaper for Hannah Myers, John J. Myers.  2)Evidence of a Sarah Hagan in family of John Hagan.
-<br>
-−
-−
-−
-<br>
-−
-<br>SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE: That Hannah Stoughton may have married a Myers sounds plausible since her step-mother was a Myers, and the step-mother's son worked for/resided with a Valentine Myers.  There is a Hannah M., born about the same time as Hannah Stoughton (birth dates calc. from census), married to John J. Myers (census 1870, 1880, & gravestone for Hanna (A.) wife of John J. Myers).    This is tantalizing, but very inconclusive.  Hannah was a very common name.
-−
-<BR>AN ALTERNATIVE JOHN MYERS
-* The 1850,1860, & 1870 census below could be a first marriage for John Myers; the location seems reasonable. John Myers was middle aged when he married Hannah, and a first marriage might make sense.
 , Toby Twp., Clarion Co. PA:
@@ Line 182: / Line 171: @@
 John W. Morgan 10.
-census Toby Township, Clarion Co. Pa, pg.9. Date of census 21 July 1870.<br>Lines 5-7:  Myers, John, age 53, male white, (Ritman Farms?), $1500 real estate, $400 personal estate.  Lavinia, age 47.  Mary Ann, age 12, in school.  All born in PA.
+census Toby Township, Clarion Co. Pa, pg.9. Date of census 21 July 1870.Lines 5-7:  <BR>Myers, John, age 53, male white, (Ritman Farms?), $1500 real estate, $400 personal estate.  <BR>Lavinia, age 47.  <br>Mary Ann, age 12, in school.  <BR>All born in PA.
-However, from P. M. Grewell:
+<br>from P. M. Grewell:
-John Myers md. to Lavina (with a Valentine Myers connection) - that is John Valentine Myers. He was a son of Valentine Myers & Sarah Krotzer Eaker, grandson of Samuel Myers & Catherine Hulings. (They are possibly related to her family; unproven. She doesn't believe this John Myers is the husband of Hannah Stoughton.  Per her family interviews, John J. Myers, husband of Hannah M., was over age 40 before he married.
+John Myers & wife Lavina - that is John Valentine Myers. He was a son of Valentine Myers & Sarah Krotzer Eaker, grandson of Samuel Myers & Catherine Hulings.   <br>They are possibly related to Pamela Myers-Grewell's family; unproven. She doesn't believe this John Myers married Hannah Stoughton (as a 2nd wife).  Per her family interviews, John J. Myers, husband of Hannah M., was over age 40 before he married.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 ==NOT A DIRECT ANCESTOR==
 ''Hannah Stoughton'' is not in my direct ancestry. She is two steps removed in the following ways:
-* Niece of [[Andrew Stoughton]]; daughter of [[Barnard V. Stoughton]]
+* Daughter of [[Barnard V. Stoughton]]; niece of [[Andrew Stoughton]]
 * Granddaughter of [[John Stoughton]] and [[Catherine Covert]]
 |}
@@ Line 69: / Line 69: @@
 |-
 ! '''1'''
-| '''1840 United States Federal Census''', Muddy Creek Twp, Butler Co, PA, page 23.  Census is not dated.<br>Family headed by '''Barnard Stoeton'''(''sic''): 2 males <5, 1 male 10-15, 1 male 20-30, 1 female 20-30.<br>Note: the male and female in their 20's are the proper ages for [[Barnard V. Stoughton|''Barnard Stoughton'']] and his wife Susan.  The two youngest males are likely to be their children, but the 10-15 year old seems too old to be a child of someone in their 20's.<br> Family headed by Margaret Stoeton is two entries earlier; William Wimer is next entry.
+| '''1840 United States Federal Census''', Muddy Creek Twp, Butler Co, PA, page 23.  Census is not dated.<br>Family headed by '''Barnard Stoeton'''(''sic''): 2 males <5, 1 male 10-15, 1 male 20-30, 1 female 20-30.<br>Note: the male and female in their 20's are the proper ages for [[Barnard V. Stoughton|''Barnard Stoughton'']] and his wife Susan.  The two youngest males are likely to be their children, but the 10-15 year old seems too old to be a child of someone in their 20's.<br> Family headed by Margaret Stoeton is two entries earlier than Barnard Stoeton. Margaret is age 30-40, so born ~1800-1810. Other females: one aged 15-20, and two aged 5-10. Males: one each at ages 10-15, 5-10, and under 5 yrs. This is possibly the recent widow and children of Hannah's uncle [[Luke Stoughton]] who died in 1839.<br>William Wimer is next entry after Barnard Stoeton.
 | [[Image:1840 census pa butler muddy creek pg 23.jpg|50px|center]]
 |-

@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 =Photos=
-  [[Image:Gravestone Hannah M wife of John J Myers, Licking Cemetery.jpg|90px|left|thumb|Gravestone of Hannah, wife of John J. Myers, Licking Cemetery, Curllsville, Clarion Co. PA]]
+  [[Image:Gravestone Hannah M wife of John J Myers, Licking Cemetery.jpg|90px|left|thumb|Gravestone of Hannah M, wife of John J. Myers, Licking Cemetery, Curllsville, Clarion Co. PA]]
 <br style="clear:both;"/>

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 __NOTOC__
+THIS PAGE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION.  SOME CONJECTURAL DATA IS LISTED TEMPORARILY (i.e. John J. Myers as husband of Hannah Stoughton in 2 census;  this assumption has problems).  Please see the Research section at bottom of page.
 <br style="clear:both;"/>
 {| class="messagebox standard-talk"
@@ Line 80: / Line 80: @@
 |-
 ! '''4'''
-| '''1870 United States Federal Census''', Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA.  P.O. Curllsville. Date of census: 10 June 1870.  <br>Lines 4-5:  Myers, Jno. J.  age 45, farmer, $1000 real estate, $200 personal property.  Hannah Myers age 29.  Both born in PA.
+| '''1870 United States Federal Census''', Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA.  P.O. Curllsville. Date of census: 10 June 1870.  CONJECTURAL SOURCE<br>Lines 4-5:  Myers, Jno. J.  age 45, farmer, $1000 real estate, $200 personal property.  Hannah Myers age 29.  Both born in PA.
 | [[Image:1870 census pa clarion piney pg 22.jpg|50px|left]]
 |-
 ! '''5'''
-| '''1880 United States Federal Census''', Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA, pg. 13.  Census dae 10 June 1880.<br>Lines 7-9: Myers, John J., white male age 63, farmer. Hannah M. age 39, wife, keeping house.  Hermon, Sarah age 19, hired girl. All, and all parents, born in PA.
+| '''1880 United States Federal Census''', Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA, pg. 13.  Census dae 10 June 1880.CONJECTURAL SOURCE<br>Lines 7-9: Myers, John J., white male age 63, farmer. Hannah M. age 39, wife, keeping house.  Hermon, Sarah age 19, hired girl. All, and all parents, born in PA.
 |[[Image:1880 census pa clarion piney pg 13.jpg|50px|left]]
 |-
@@ Line 114: / Line 114: @@
 Tracing Hannah Stoughton, we follow this logic, from Jim Voltz:
 *Remember that Susan Myers (b. 1814) of Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA married 1st John Hagan, & married 2nd [[Barnard V. Stoughton]], father of Hannah Stoughton.   Susan Myers was thus step-mother to Hannah Stoughton.  Hannah is found in the census 1840-1860 in her parents' household.
-*No Hannah Stoughton (born PA about 1842) has yet been located in the 1870 census.
-*In 1880 census for Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA we find a Hannah M. (born PA ca. 1841), wife of John J. Myers (b. ~1817), and a servant girl Sarah Hermon age 19 (born ~1861).  Who is Sarah Hermon?
+*In 1970 & 1880 census for Piney Twp., Clarion Co. PA we find a Hannah M. (born PA ca. 1841), wife of John J. Myers (b. ~1817), and (in 1880) a servant girl Sarah Hermon age 19 (born ~1861).  Who is Sarah Hermon?
 * In 1870 census, ancestry.com's search engine found no Sarah Hermon listed in PA. Could Sarah "Hermon" actually be Sarah Hagan, perhaps related to John Hagan, first husband of Susan Myers? That is, perhaps Hannah was housing as a servant girl her step-mother's (niece perhaps)from her first marriage. Is there any evidence for a Sarah Hagan in the family of John Hagan?
-* Could this John Myers (of the 1880 census) be the brother of Susan Myer (b. ~1810), step-mother of Hannah Stoughton ?  At 63 years old (b. 1817), he could be, age wise.   We don't know the parents of Susan.
+* Could this John Myers (of the 1880 census) be the brother of Susan Myer (b. ~1810), step-mother of Hannah Stoughton?  At 63 years old (b. 1817), he could be, age wise.   We don't know the parents of Susan.
-*In 1850 census, Piney Twp., Clarion Co., PA, lines 29-41, are 3 Myers households, living next to each other:
+*In 1850 census, Piney Twp., Clarion Co., PA, lines 29-41, are 3 Myers households, living next to each other.  It appears that John & Elizabeth Myers are parents of 3 children (John, Valentine & James) living with them, and probably parents of Jacob and Joseph, both of whom are married but appear to live on either side of John & Elizabeth.
 <br> Myers         Jacob          30    M    W    Farmer         800       Pa.
 <br> Myers         Sarah          26    F    W    .              .         Pa.
@@ Line 133: / Line 133: @@
 <br><br> Myers         Joseph         28    M    W    Laborer        600       Pa.
 <br> Myers         Margaret       21    F    W    .              .         Pa.
 * In 1860 census (Piney Twp, Clarion Co, PA, page 15):
@@ Line 141: / Line 138: @@
 next household:<br>James Myers 25, farmer  <br>Elizabeth Myers 75  W(widow)<br>Elizabeth Johnson, 26 servant<br>This appears to be John living next to his brother James.  Their mother is living with James.
 * [[John Edward Hagan]]  (son of Susan Myer and 1st husband John Hagan) was living with the family of Valentine Myers (b. ~1825) in 1860.
-*This appears to likely be John Edward Hagan's mother's brother's family (i.e. Susan Myer's brother John Myers' family).  This Valentine Myer's father was most likely John Myers seen above in the 1850 census, even though Valentine's age/birth year wobbles by 10 years).
+*This Valentine Myers may be Susan Myer's family, i.e. John Edward Hagan's mother's family.  This Valentine Myer's father was most likely John Myers seen above in the 1850 census, even though Valentine's age/birth year wobbles by 7 years).
-* We surmise, there was a John Myers who was most likely Valentine's brother (b. 1816) and wasn't married at age 34. Susan Myers was already married to [[Barnard V. Stoughton]] at this point.  It is likely that through Susan Myers Stoughton, her brother John Myers came to know her step-daughter Hannah Stoughton.
+* We surmise, there was a John Myers who was most likely Valentine's brother (b. 1816) and wasn't married at age 34. His sister Susan Myers was already married to [[Barnard V. Stoughton]] at this point.  It is likely that through Susan Myers Stoughton, her brother John Myers came to know her step-daughter Hannah Stoughton.
 * We need:  1)Obituaries from Clarion Newspaper for Hannah Myers, John J. Myers.  2)Evidence of a Sarah Hagan in family of John Hagan.
 <br>
 See:  http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=myers&GSfn=hannah&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSst=40&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=20956000&df=all
-Gravestone for Hannah, wife of John J. Myers, died Jan 15, 1888, aged 19 yrs & 12 days.
+Gravestone for Hannah (A?), wife of John J. Myers, died Jan 15, 1888, aged 49 yrs & 12 days.
-Page is titled Hannah M. Stoughton Myers. Copyright by Pamela Myers-Grewell.  Pamela also has posted a family tree, "Descendants of John & Elizabeth Myers" on Rootsweb; see:
+Page is titled "Hannah M. Stoughton Myers". Copyright by Pamela Myers-Grewell. In personal communication from Pamela, the linking of Hannah Stoughton to John J. Myers is at present conjecture.   "Hannah M." came from the 1880 census of John J. Myers, but the gravestone appears to say "Hannah A."<br>According to P.M. Brewell's research/family interviews, this Hannah was born Jan 3, 1839 and d. Jan 15, 1888 - buried at Licking Cemetery near Curllsville, Clarion Co., PA.  (Due to a lot of confusion and multiple double-listing of memorials, FindAGrave merged Churchville and Licking cemeteries, which are both rather small and border one another).  ''(The Myers) are actually buried in Licking Cemetery but may appear as Churchville in FindAGrave memorials.''  John died some time after the 1880 census, but before 1900 apparently.   According to notes from interviews of elders, John married a little late in life - being over 40 - and he and Hannah never had any children of their own.
 http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pacpiney/index_files/myers.htm
-Here, John J. Myers has spouse Hannah M. (no surname).  Her dates are 1841-1888   (i.e., age 47).  On the gravestone, I don't see an "M" initial for Hannah.
+Here, John J. Myers has spouse Hannah M. (no surname).  Her dates are 1841-1888.  This matches the Hannah of the John J. Myers census data.
-<BR><BR>ALTERNATIVELY<BR>
-*Another John Myers in 1850,1860, & 1870 census could be the family of a possible first marriage for John Myers; the location seems reasonable.  However, it is unlikely that in 1850, the John Myers who eventually married Hannah Stoughton was enumerated  both with a wife Lavina  and  with his parents.   Since there appears to be a connection of Susan Myers' son to Valentine Myers, the John Myers shown above living with parents & brother Valentine is likely correct.   The following 3 census are for the time retained until more is known.  John Myers was middle aged when he married Hannah, and a first marriage would make sense.
+<br>SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE: That Hannah Stoughton may have married a Myers sounds plausible since her step-mother was a Myers, and the step-mother's son worked for/resided with a Valentine Myers.  There is a Hannah M., born about the same time as Hannah Stoughton (birth dates calc. from census), married to John J. Myers (census 1870, 1880, & gravestone for Hanna (A.) wife of John J. Myers).    This is tantalizing, but very inconclusive.  Hannah was a very common name.
 , Toby Twp., Clarion Co. PA:
@@ Line 171: / Line 175: @@
 census Toby Township, Clarion Co. Pa, pg.9. Date of census 21 July 1870.<br>Lines 5-7:  Myers, John, age 53, male white, (Ritman Farms?), $1500 real estate, $400 personal estate.  Lavinia, age 47.  Mary Ann, age 12, in school.  All born in PA.